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Simplifying Life Through Technology
SoundVision LLC is a lifestyle technology company located in Mooresville, North Carolina. We interview vendors, clients and staff with the purpose of demystifying the capabilties of new technologies for your home or business and sometimes highlighting local content that is important to our community.
Simplifying Life Through Technology
Design Perspectives: Media Rooms & Home Theaters
On this episode of “Design Perspectives,” Mark, Andrew, and Jenny Pippin sit down to discuss Media Rooms and Home Theaters.
We’re thrilled to introduce a brand-new series on our podcast: Design Perspectives. In this series, we’ll sit down with Jenny Pippin of Pippin Home Designs to explore the intersection of technology and innovative residential design. Jenny brings over three decades of experience creating thoughtful, client-centered designs that transform houses into functional, personalized homes. Together, we’ll uncover her unique design process, how she integrates cutting-edge technology, and what today’s homeowners are really looking for in their dream spaces. Expect deep dives into Jenny’s approach to balancing aesthetic appeal with modern technology solutions, stories of past projects that push boundaries, and insights into how technology continues to shape the world of custom home design.
Discover the secrets to creating the ultimate home theater as we welcome back the brilliant Jenny Pippin from Pippin Home Designs. Jenny shares her expertise on the growing trend of incorporating home theaters and media rooms into modern homes, whether as dedicated spaces or versatile entertainment hubs. From seating arrangements and soundproofing to the art of constructing a room within a room, Jenny reveals the essential design elements to achieve an unparalleled audio-visual experience. Expect insights on how platforms like Pinterest fuel client inspiration and the practical aspects of building these immersive spaces, including heating, cooling, and accommodating high-tech equipment.
We'll learn how to master the art of optimizing acoustics for an incredible audio experience. Get practical tips on identifying and treating points of first reflection to reduce sound fuzziness and discover the surprising role of sand in buffering sound. From cost-effective solutions like using unevenly arranged bookshelves as diffusers to the premium approach of building a room within a room, our conversation brings you actionable advice for achieving pristine sound quality without overspending.
We also venture into the challenges and innovations in streamlining home automation, revealing how engraved keypads and geofencing technology revolutionize convenience in lighting and climate control. Explore the design intricacies of maximizing views in media rooms, with solutions for anti-glare screens and motorized treatments that don't compromise aesthetics. Whether you're a movie buff, tech enthusiast, or just curious about the fusion of design and technology, this episode is packed with knowledge and inspiration. Join us for a journey into the future of home entertainment design.
To learn more about Pippin Home Designs:
https://www.pippinhomedesigns.com/
Check out Pippin Home Designs on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/pippinhomedesigns/
To learn more about SoundVision:
https://www.svavnc.com/
Check out our Instagram to see our recent projects:
https://www.instagram.com/soundvisionllc/
To listen to more “Simplifying Life Through Technology” podcasts:
https://open.spotify.com/show/7fIkJuLZ7lZ8xbafz62muQ
Contact Us Today: (704) 696-2792 Ext. 1 | Info@svavnc.com | soundvisionlkn.com
I'm excited to welcome back one of my favorite guests on the podcast. Today we have Jenny Pippin of Pippin Home Designs.
Speaker 2:Jenny Andrew does not do the live. What are those things called the sound effects? For many people?
Speaker 1:So you are special. Yes, I was telling Mark about that. I usually like to add it in after, but my favorite guest is back.
Speaker 3:Welcome back, thank you, I love being here.
Speaker 2:Well, you are very unique because you designed some pretty incredible and award-winning homes. Share with some of our listeners some of the things that you see from a technology standpoint in homes, that that you design, that people want, and some of the challenges, successes, whatever of projects that you've done. That cool, absolutely pre this, you brought up home theaters and I think you said there's always a home theater or a space for some sort of media room. Is that fair In every house? Absolutely yes, in every house. Okay, and so tell us a little bit more about that. Like, how do you design that? How much is a customer involved? You know, what kind of requests do you get? That kind of thing?
Speaker 3:Well, a lot of our clients are looking for a specific space like an actual theater room, and then others are looking for a more multipurpose space so it can be rec room with the big screen TV and pool table and that sort of thing. The ones that want the specific home theater are big movie buffs, and one of them actually isn't is an actress oh wow, she wants a real screening room in her house right um, and and so we have to design in multi-levels and meaning rows of seating, yes, and so we're looking for.
Speaker 3:How many people do they want to try to fit in there? Sure, and where is this room located? Is it in a space that is going to have windows or not windows? Most people don't want windows in that room right, definitely need light control yes, so you want to put it on a space and in an area of the house where it's internal, so you're not taking up one of your rooms that could have a fabulous view with a home theater, although you could close off draperies and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Let me back up for a sec. When people come to you, do they? And they say, man, I'm a movie buff, I want a theater. Do they have ideas? Do they bring stuff to you? Is it like a house thing? Have they had one in the past? Or did they just sort of say I want this, jenny, you create it?
Speaker 3:well, a lot of them definitely have ideas. They have, you know, some images that they've saved, either in house or on pinterest, or you know, just scrolling somewhere, sure, and they share some inspiration pictures with me. A lot of it is around. You know the decor of it, not so much you know the technical aspect um some theme rooms out there there's definitely some theater theme rooms yes, there are. And then, of course, the snack bar area. That's a big.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, gotta have that gotta have that.
Speaker 3:And then it's. You know, talking about the number of people they want to put in there, you know how many seats do they comfortably need, and and if they have overflow, what are we going to do with that? And then where does the the equipment go?
Speaker 2:there's there's a lot of uh design aspects that go into it. We were just talking off air, about the golden ratios of a room, which we can talk about in a second. There's also heating and air. Uh, not only, not only for comfort, but for sound too.
Speaker 3:Ah, and the equipment as well. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:That's exactly, and, whether they want to see it or not, some, some people like the lights and stuff and some people don't want to see it at all. Um, you know, things like Things like the doors, are they solid core, and that kind of thing is a big deal. You talked about seating, how deep the risers are, how big the people are, that kind of thing, height-wise or whatever. So do you take all of this kind of stuff into account?
Speaker 3:Absolutely yes, yeah, and not only that, but thinking about how is it going to, how's this room going to be constructed, because I've also heard that it's really important. You know how you're insulating, how you're soundproofing, and are you putting something on the floor? You know if it's in a basement? Are you putting, like sand, things like that, under the seating? What's going on there?
Speaker 2:I am so glad you brought this up because I would have forgotten it and it would have been shame on me. The room within a room it started with like double sheet rock and then it was framing inside of framing and floating floors and there's all kinds of suspension ceilings and stuff like that so that sound doesn't travel outside of the room, right, and also you get the maximum sound inside the room. If you, if you're doing a um, a studio for this actress customer, that's the impact. To make it as realistic as possible. I'm sure it's very big, but that's that can get really expensive. Yes, I mean that's just not slapping like a big screen TV or a projector with a screen on the wall, definitely not. So that's pretty rare. The fact that you're taking that into account and, as a matter of fact, tell me about we talked about the golden ratios just a second ago. I don't want to. I'll be happy to explain it, but you're probably better at it than me Tell me about that.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, in looking at how the space can really function to the optimum sound that you want, you've got to have a certain distance, width and depth, and also taking into account how many people are going to be in there, you know has something to do with the size of that room.
Speaker 2:But then you also don't want parallel walls, you want the walls to be angled and then I just learned off um offline that we also need to have curves in the corners yeah, the the golden ratios basically are are a measurement, so you do not want parallel surfaces and you don't want the surfaces to be the same, like the height of from floor to ceiling should not be the same as the width of the walls in any place.
Speaker 2:Jenny was talking about how she actually angles the walls back. So think about, instead of a square or rectangle, square would be the worst, rectangle second worst. You actually have walls that are not parallel, so they angle back almost like a trapezoid, uh, and that that helps with standing waves inside the room, which enhances the experience and and makes it so that you're not, you don't have these really boomy areas and then these really like dead areas where you're sitting. So that that's the kind of um, next level design that jenny brings to the table that not everybody even knows. Like sure, make it dark, okay, cool, but you know that's very, very next level thinking and it's it's not only the, the side walls that have to angle.
Speaker 3:You've got your ceiling and your floor. Now are different heights as well that's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. So there's a lot that goes into a true theater now, not as much so, for, like a media room right, that's kind of a difference, but in the theater, um, that's a big one. And I got to tell this story real quick, uh, because it's funny and my wife will love it when she hears this. We, we have a basement and we did, we did a theater in it and I told her when we did it. I was like, hey, we also, the room needs to be dark. So I don't really care what color the walls are, they just need to be dark. Like, you can paint them and you pick the color, I don't care. Just so she goes through all this and and, uh, she and Ramona down there, I, ramon, and she picks like a maroon, all right, cool, it's dark.
Speaker 2:So ramon paints the entire basement, this huge room, maroon, and we come back first time she sees it oh no she goes downstairs and she walks in the room and literally she's in there for like two seconds and she breaks out bawling, crying. It looks like red rub. It really was awful. By the way, it was awful, poor Kristen, oh, my goodness. So I call Ramon. Ramon is five minutes from our house. He has just left on his way home and I call him and I'm like Ramon. You got to repaint that.
Speaker 1:Asa please.
Speaker 2:Kristen can't go down there. He starts laughing. I actually had to give him audio equipment to to help compensate for a little incentive. Oh my gosh, so color. What kind of designs do you do in there? Uh, you know, do you do, uh the pictures like, uh, you know, movie pictures and what kind of design stuff do you do?
Speaker 3:movie pictures lighted, of course, yeah and um, and then we put in the, the snack bar with the popcorn machine and, you know, drink machine. I mean drink cooler and and all that sort of thing, yeah, yeah all the bells and whistles, yeah do you use any acoustic acoustic treatments? Yes, you do absolutely, yeah, um, all around, and I think part of using the sand in the floor is part of acoustics too it is is to make yeah, to make it more dead.
Speaker 2:So acoustic, acoustic treatments, uh are, that's another area of um.
Speaker 2:There's a lot to learn about that, because there's acoustic treatments that absorb things absorption yeah then there's like what we have in here, these panels, these are diffusers, uh, so in different parts of the room you want different things. Exactly a real. Here's a real common one. Here's a little pro tip for anybody listening um, the point of first reflection. So a lot of times when you're in a theater and you're listening it, sometimes the dialogue, I don't know, it's fuzzy. You can't really pinpoint where it's from.
Speaker 2:It's a, and the problem with that is the point of first reflection.
Speaker 2:So your speakers on either side, they come straight at you, but they also they, they play in every direction, so they will bounce off the wall to the, you know, outside of the left speaker and to the outside of the right speaker, and then that reflection will also come to your ear. But imagine that's actually longer, so it gets to your ear later in time. And so what happens is your ears are trying to process this direct sound and then this reflected sound and they, that's what causes a lot of the kind of the fuzzy um I don't know dialogue that a lot of people sometimes are like I can't hear it or whatever. So here's a little trick If you take a flashlight and a mirror and you take the mirror down the wall and you just watch and watch and watch in the mirror until you can see the reflection of the front speaker and sometimes you need a flashlight if it's dark but where you first see that reflection of that front speaker with the mirror, that needs an absorption panel right there.
Speaker 2:That's the point of first reflection, and so you want to make sure you have an absorption panel right there. You definitely do not want to have something that's reflective there. Okay, bounce it around. Yeah, you want to kill it right there. The other thing is these diffusers I'm acting like you can see this, but in the in the podcast room diffusers, uh, in the back of the room are great. You want to break up um, as sound travels, you want to kind of kill it as soon as it, you know, gets past where you are. You want to to. You don't want to have weight or reflections, so diffuser panels will do that. Here's another little pro tip great diffuser panel, super cheap. If you have a bookshelf with books in it and you're not, you're okay with not being ocd and the books aren't like completely lined up. The spines of the books are like at different levels. That makes a perfect diffuser panel.
Speaker 3:Really so great to know. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Um, so those are the kinds of things that help out sound inside the room.
Speaker 1:I'm curious about the sand and how that played into acoustic treatments Like what was, like the thought or design process behind that that room.
Speaker 3:Well, again we were thinking it was something that would help with reverberation and with the sound deadening, and we weren't sure how the concrete under the room was gonna interplay with the, with the sound, so that was a way to buffer it okay everything.
Speaker 2:Everything resonates right, so. So there's a resonant frequency for everything and usually when you're talking about the ceiling or the floor, you want it. You're doing one of two things. Either one you don't want sound to transfer, transfer out of that room to another room, worst case, like a bedroom above you or or below you or something like that. That's number one and number two you want to keep all the sound inside the room because if, if it gets out of the room, then bedroom above you or or below you or something like that, that's number one and number two. You want to keep all the sound inside the room, cause if, if it gets out of the room, then you're losing that impact, you're losing, uh, you know volume. You're losing, it's going, yeah, so, um, what sand is really cool? Because it is, it allows it. You know it's, it's porous, um, it's not solid. I mean it is, but it, you know it allows it.
Speaker 2:You know it's, it's porous, um, it's not solid, I mean it is but it, you know, it allows it to kind of diffuse through it, but it also makes things very heavy. So you know, if you put a whole floor sand down there, it's going to be pretty heavy right? So that's going to help deaden the room. So when you clap your hand, and another little pro tip if you're in the clap your hand and another little pro tip if you're in, if you're in the room and you, you know you clap, how reverberant is it? Is it super reverberant or is it dead? Does it die, right, when you clap? Excuse me, sorry about that. Um, you, you don't want it totally dead, but you don't want it super reverberant Right, and so the sand.
Speaker 1:Is that like there's a layer on top of that? It's not just like sand on the floor, or is it Because that's what I'm my naive brain? I'm thinking like, oh, here's the chair, here's just some sand on the floor all spread out. No, you don't actually see it Right. It's under the finished floor. I had to clarify that for thinkers like me.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's isolating the actual concrete from the floor you're standing on.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's like an isolator. Yeah, I thought you had some cool little beach theater going on.
Speaker 2:Probably is one out there somewhere. Probably.
Speaker 1:Sounds messy, probably so.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm wondering what would you recommend to my clients to be the best way to sound insulate?
Speaker 2:that room if there's always cost in this yeah if cost is no object, you build a room inside a room. Yes, okay, um, and it's completely isolated through a bunch of different techniques, some of which we've talked about, from the rest of the house. In practical application, that's not super common no, definitely not and very expensive. Yes, I got a tickle in my throat.
Speaker 1:Damn tickle.
Speaker 2:I know it's driving me crazy, so it's usually some compromise in there, but that's where you start and then you kind of bring it back. You know, if it's two people and nobody else is in the house, who cares? If it's isolated?
Speaker 3:Right, like doesn't matter. Yeah, nobody's going to hear it, but maybe the cat and dog, right?
Speaker 2:Unless, you know, you got one that stays up and likes that and one that doesn't.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and a lot of times we'll put the theater a long ways from the master suite.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, and I found it interesting that you said so. You typically do them more in isolated rooms, not with windows, because a lot of your designs are for the view.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:And we don't want to use a room that's going to be not taking advantage of that gorgeous view, that they've just paid to take advantage of.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's often in a basement in the back area. You know that's not on an exterior wall. Is that the same with the media room? Not often, no, most of the time, the media space is part of the rec room, which is on a view side. Okay, yeah, so you've got a wall of windows and and that's another thing everybody's concerned about the reflection on the tv from that glass yeah, yes and the best position for the tv in relation to where all that glass is so here's a um.
Speaker 2:I don't want to get like too far out into the ethos here. There are anti-glare tvs now also. They're um, everybody listening, they're the most expensive ones, but there are anti-glare tvs that will. That will fix that Um. However, there is also a lot more uh of a technique where a lot more taking advantage of that view and using that wall as the, as the display. So let's say, you've got a projector and a screen that's hidden in the ceiling, with motorized window treatments, so when you want to watch TV, they come down, screen comes down. That way you can face the furniture in the same orientation.
Speaker 2:It's not hey, the TV's over here to the right and the lake is over here to the left, and now you've got that issue Again.
Speaker 3:There's more to it, but it solves both those problems and and we've dealt with that um, either from, like you said, coming from the ceiling or coming up from a piece of furniture, yeah, yeah, you can do that too.
Speaker 2:Yes, you can do that too. So and and now with the um, with the dual roller shades too, you can have like a nice, uh you know shade that really just kind of blocks the sun, or um, what's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker 1:like a sheer fabric.
Speaker 2:So like a sheer fabric, you still have light, but it's diffused and not as intense that yeah, that's right, and then, and then, on the other side, you can have the room darkening version, so you can do either one, you know, depending on the time of day, or you know what, whatever you want yeah, all in the same space, all in the same space, yeah yeah, which I think is more practical for most of our clients than than the dedicated home theater that's why I wanted to bring it up before we, before we quit.
Speaker 2:I want to make sure that, to make sure that they know that there are options that are beyond sticking the TV above a fireplace or in a cabinet and you have the glare when you're designing something from scratch with the kind of level of design that you provide. There are equally as aesthetically pleasing options for this too.
Speaker 3:Yes, there are yeah, yeah, Lots of options and and you know it it varies depending on what the client wants, and fortunately there's a lot of flexibility in it.
Speaker 2:Yes that's right, that's true, and that's where we come in.
Speaker 3:And thank goodness for you. Wow, awesome.
Speaker 2:We love that.
Speaker 3:Well, this has been a good one, I think so.
Speaker 1:Thank you, jenny, for joining us. Come back anytime.
Speaker 3:I would love to Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:Thank you so, like probably two years ago, um, anytime we put in the lighting control key pads, we always had that little piece of paper and you wrote down, you know what it was, and you would say to the customer well, you know, we programmed it like this and live with it for a month and then we'll come out and change it. And inevitably it never gets changed, like the customer never calls back, or sometimes we didn't follow up, you know whatever. So, and even if we did, we started realizing like that's not really efficient. Now we got to go install these things twice. So why don't we put them in?
Speaker 2:Oh and, by the way, the inspector, when he's going through at the trim, he doesn't know what the hell any of them do and he's like I don't know if everything works or not. So now we actually order the key pads, engraved key pads. We have like five scenes that we put in in every house and we just do that. And then inevitably the customer will want to change something. So we actually have a meeting beforehand, go through how it's going to work and whatever. So at the trim all that's in before they ever move in, and then if we have to change something, we're only changing like one little chiclet instead of 70, you know, throughout the house.
Speaker 3:And all of this is done wirelessly, right. Can be Can be Okay.
Speaker 2:So in your world world, because you're designing from the ground up the best way to do it is what's called panelized, which is not wireless. Okay, that's, that's wired, the. The difference is in a conventional room you've got a switch, you know, you got power that comes from a circuit that goes to a switch that then goes to a light. Yep, in panelized it's actually changing now too. But the traditional way in panelized is the switch is a low voltage wire that goes back to a panel or the keypad or whatever, and then the light just goes back to the panel. They're not directly connected anymore, they're programmed through the system so that this switch will turn on this light, but it could turn on a bunch of lights, which now starts scenes.
Speaker 2:Right, you know? Cooking scene, entertainment scene, relax scene, go to bed scene, whatever that that does. And that's what happens when we turn the TV off. It starts this really elaborate scene happens. When we turn the tv off, it starts this really elaborate scene. That's super long, but in in reality, like, all we do is turn the tv off and then do what we normally do and go to bed and everything happens so what happens if you turn it off in the middle of the?
Speaker 2:day. Oh, they don't pay. This is why they pay her the big bucks.
Speaker 1:She asked all the right questions.
Speaker 2:That is a great question. So I actually have it. We program it for our lifestyle. So our lifestyle is we go downstairs in our basement, watch TV almost every single night before we go to bed. Every night, most of the time we'd been her down there, so it's only timed from 8 30 pm till 11 pm, because that's when we, that's when we are there and that's that's where we're going to bed. Outside of that time frame, it doesn't do anything, it just turns the tv off. Okay, yeah, and you can. You can trigger. What's so cool is you can? It's really only limited by what you imagine like. Like it can be triggered by anything, and this is where I was going to talk about geo-fencing in here too, and are you familiar with that term?
Speaker 3:I've heard it. I'm not real clear on what it is.
Speaker 2:So geo-fencing is basically like um, it's a virtual bubble around an area, usually like your house, yeah, and. And once you and you have your phone, so of your house, and once you and you have your phone, so your phone knows where you are because you're holding it and it has this geo-fence around your house. So once you go into that fence, into that bubble, your phone knows you're in that bubble, so then it can automatically do things. And it's not only your house, it could be work too. So here's some common ones I leave work and I go outside the bubble of work, it automatically emails my wife or text my wife and says hey, I'm on the way home, you know, just getting ready for dinner or whatever. Another super common one is a lot of the newer cars. We have an Audi right, and if you, as we're getting close to the house, right on the screen pops up do you want to open your garage door? That's geofencing. You put in the Audi where your home is, in the GPS.
Speaker 2:So it knows where your home is, so it's got this little bubble around your house and then it knows that when you're coming in you probably want to open the garage door, because you've programmed a garage door opener in it.
Speaker 3:I see.
Speaker 2:Okay. So it intelligently says oh, get near the house, do you want to open the door? But that's like super basic. You could do anything with that. Like with our automation system, you could do anything. So, as you're getting close to the house, maybe it turns on lights, puts up or down shades, changes the temperature, unlocks a door or locks a door or whatever you know. When you leave, it automatically checks all your locks to make sure that you've locked all the doors. You know that kind of thing. So that's another thing that like in thinking about this with your customer demographic and what might be of interest to them that they might not know about.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That could enhance their lifestyle without them doing anything.
Speaker 3:One of the things that one of my clients did he said it was the most expensive dog door he ever put in was a remote controlled sliding glass door. Oh yeah, so his dog could go out and go to the bathroom when he was not home.
Speaker 1:Oh, and it would just open automatically and then close?
Speaker 2:And you can do that with a motion detector proximity sensor. You can do it with old time. He used to do it with the little garage door eyes.
Speaker 3:I think there was something on his collar, oh sure, sure, that's access control that's access control.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, you could do that too, as he gets close to it so say he's the type of dog that, like barks out the window. Is there a certain like program so that they know he's there for a certain amount of time? He wants to go out Because, like what, if he keeps running up to that space and it keeps opening, you can?
Speaker 2:program that too, so you could program it based on a certain time of day, but that may not work.
Speaker 2:Yeah time of day, but that may not work. So, more more commonly, you could program it so it's called a variable. So basically, like the dog goes up to the door, got to go out, door opens. So now the variable changes to has the door open? Yes, it's open, it's true. Okay, cool, dog goes out, comes back in. You know, have a time, whatever 10 minutes or whatever door shuts. Now you put a timer, that variable stays true until you decide to move it back to false. So maybe it's hey, I'm going to wait at least two hours before to work again. So dog can go up to it a million times for the next two hours and it won't work.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then, two hours later, it turns the variable back. Next time he goes up to door, it opens, goes back to true, starts the timer again.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, very easy programming. That's cool. Yeah, very easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and gives them that flexibility, right. Also, just like kids coming home, you could get notified, you know, if you wanted to. So once that thing is triggered inside of an automation system, it can say oh okay, that thing is triggered inside of an automation system, it can say, oh okay, that thing's triggered. I want to. You know I'm going to email my, my owner or text him or whatever that I'm at the door.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You can do all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:That's cool, super cool stuff. So I got, I got off on tangents, which I tend to do.
Speaker 2:So why don't we do the first one on golf simulators or theaters, cause I love both of those.
Speaker 3:I'm game for either one. Let's do theaters first.
Speaker 2:Okay, I love theaters, so why don't we'll? We'll start, Andrew will do his and and we'll do a quick introduction, and then we'll how will I bring it up? We'll just talk about hey, you've recently designed a cool theater. You know, what do you take into account when you do that? And then we'll kind of delve into that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Take us through the process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll just talk about you know, we'll just talk, We'll just talk and Andrew will cut us. Yes, the magic of editing and then we'll maybe wind down a little bit and sort of kind of pause for a sec and then like start over, okay, and talk about the next thing, and then that way we can have like a little, you know two or three of them.
Speaker 3:Okay, cool, all right.
Speaker 2:All right, let's go.
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