Simplifying Life Through Technology
SoundVision LLC is a lifestyle technology company located in Mooresville, North Carolina. We interview vendors, clients and staff with the purpose of demystifying the capabilties of new technologies for your home or business and sometimes highlighting local content that is important to our community.
Simplifying Life Through Technology
Kasay Construction: Steven Kasay
On this episode of “Simplifying Life Through Technology,” Mark, Marshall, and Andrew sit down with Steven Kasay from Kasay Construction.
Kasay Construction is a firm renowned for its commitment to transparency, communication, and cutting-edge building practices. Established in 2016 as a renovation-focused business, Kasay Construction has since expanded to offer both luxury remodels and new constructions, all powered by word-of-mouth referrals. Steven's journey began in trim carpentry and furniture making, where he developed a passion for quality craftsmanship. After earning a BS in Mechanical Engineering from Clemson University, he saw firsthand the poor construction methods commonly used and set out to build better quality homes.
By 2022, Steven achieved certification as one of the few Certified Passive House Tradespersons in the Southeast, allowing him to bring ultra-energy-efficient, durable, and healthy home designs to his clients. Now specializing in eco-conscious, passive homes, Kasay Construction focuses on airtightness, thermal barriers, and air quality, all while tackling the unique challenges of remodeling.
Join us as Steven shares his insights on the evolving construction landscape, the future of sustainable building, and the pivotal moments that arise when structural surprises come to light. This episode is packed with valuable stories for homeowners and industry enthusiasts alike—don’t miss Steven’s take on how a dedication to precision and transparency helped shape Kasay Construction into a trusted leader in high-performance, energy-efficient homes.
To learn more about Kasay Construction:
https://www.kasayconstruction.com/
Check out Kasay Construction on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/kasayconstruction/
To learn more about SoundVision:
https://www.svavnc.com/
Check out our Instagram to see our recent projects:
https://www.instagram.com/soundvisionllc/
To listen to more “Simplifying Life Through Technology” podcasts:
https://open.spotify.com/show/7fIkJuLZ7lZ8xbafz62muQ
Contact Us Today: (704) 696-2792 Ext. 1 | Info@svavnc.com | soundvisionlkn.com
um, I just worried, so I I kind of I mean, you're a college kid.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did the trim carpentry for another contractor, um, and then the whole idea was I would come in and do trim carpentry and he was going to kind of train me in project management. He was one of those one man in a truck type operations. Yeah, yeah, uh. And then I just we tried it after college for about six months. Didn't work out and so I broke off fully on my own right after that. But yeah, it started out as trim carpentry, kind of punch carpentry and slab furniture made a bunch of tables when you started, were you a freshman.
Speaker 1:Uh, no, so actually I started at samford university down in birmingham they had a jan Um, and so I had six weeks off. I didn't not going to take another class over a Jan term, so I came home, my parents were doing an addition on their house, and I framed with the framers for six weeks, and so it was actually that contractor that I ended up doing trim carpentry for all through college.
Speaker 2:And you had, I mean, you just had like an uh, you were just liked this and said, hey, can I just work with the framing crew.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what? Yeah, so I needed to do something. My parents are going to let me sit there. Yeah, yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:And so I see Marshall is what happens if your parents do. Let you just sit there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my parents rule was always I mean, we always paid for our own gas, paid for our own car insurance. They provided a car, but I had to do something.
Speaker 2:I wasn't allowed to just sit around. That is so cool. So, do you know? Uh, do you know Jason Tannenbaum over at Granda? Do you know Granda Builders?
Speaker 1:I know Granda. I don't know anybody specifically over there.
Speaker 2:So Jason, um, we met cause, uh, I worked at Ryan homes many, many years ago and Joe Granda was like my boss's boss and Jason went to UGA, which is where my boys are, and Jason was in construction management and then ended up getting hired at Ryan and that's how we met. But when he was at UGA, he started a company where they were building lofts, like you would go in the dorm room and at the time and probably still, but at the time you had beds on each side and it was really, really tight and people wanted to just like do a bunk bed kind of thing. And so he like started building these lofts and he literally was like so busy, it was a full-time thing, you know. He went to school, but then it was kind of like what you're saying he just didn't have to drive back.
Speaker 3:He was like building bunk beds in between classes.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it was actually lofts where the thing flipped down. It wasn't an actual bunk bed. Yeah, kind of like an elevated I think it was kind of like an elevated Murphy. Yes, and yeah, he did it all during college.
Speaker 3:He literally said it's like a smart way to make it to the female dorm.
Speaker 2:You need to ask him about it the next time you talk to him, cause he did it more for him and, like four guys or something, did it more in girl dorms than in guy dorms but they're super super high demand. So I mean not totally dissimilar to what you to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I had a. Uh, I had a 20 foot enclosed trailer we had equipped as a shop, but it pulled a generator out in the back of a warehouse in clemson and would build furniture and then deliver it on tuesdays and thursdays that is very, very cool wow, a little different all right.
Speaker 2:So one more funny thing. Um, back before I even worked for Ryan, I lived in Atlanta for a while and I was a rep and, uh, we, I repped electronics. I was the Kenwood guy, among other things. But back at the time, uh, the sales rep that was in this area sold Kenwood car stereos and rack systems to Duke power. Duke power used to have stores around here kenwood stereos.
Speaker 2:I'll get to that so you lived here, your, when did you move here? Oh six, oh no, it was before that way before then. So duke power used to have retail stores in all around charlotte and the premise, the whole reason they had a retail store, was that this was back before you could pay online and everything and people would literally bring their checks in for the power bill or whatever. So Duke took that as an opportunity to sell stuff. So they literally sold white goods washers, dryers, refrigerators, all that stuff. They were the largest white good independent dealer. Iers, dryers, refrigerators, all all that stuff. Right, they were the largest white good independent dealer, I think in the country.
Speaker 2:They did like something. They did something ridiculous like $58 million in white goods. Okay, by literally just people walking in, and then what they would do is they'd sell, you know, uh, whatever five bucks of paid. You know uh, they take, they tacked it on to your energy bill, which is illegal now, but back then they could do it. So you were like paying over time, like uh, like an air and rents or something.
Speaker 2:So well, if that's illegal now uh, because it's because the power is okay, is regulated, and and uh, it gives them an unfair advantage I'd say ver Verizon does that to me every single month.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, the pay by the month is clearly not illegal.
Speaker 2:So they wanted to do other stuff in there because they were making a lot of money. So we sold them car stereos and rack systems from Kenwood, and of course the rack system is freestanding, but the car stereos you had to do like a display. We literally had a dude in atlanta, a guy like a guy that was building hand-building displays in his garage for duke power, who had done this huge um. They used to send out flyers, you know, like on Thursdays, and it would be like hey, kenwood car stereo coming next week or whatever, and it was six months of marketing all this crap. I'm the guy that's delivering the racks up here from Atlanta. So I've, I've, I've got this big, you know whatever you haul trail or whatever. And we got all these.
Speaker 2:Well, first the guy was supposed to do however many was supposed to do. It was like 40 and he did like 12. Okay, so that? So that's a whole different story. That that's equally fun but not really doesn't make sense from what we're talking about here. So I get in the truck and I'm driving up and I get to Greenville and and I had to get gas, and I get off on 51 Woodruff Road, woodruff Road and I take a left into the malls right there. I take a left and I'm in that intersection taking a left and the truck breaks down and I mean smack the middle of the intersection and it's like 430 in the afternoon. Oh.
Speaker 1:God, you're stuck there for a while.
Speaker 2:I was literally like it was middle of summer, so hot I had no idea what to do. It took like two hours for someone to come and tow it. It was, and then I had to get another truck and transfer the stuff. And get it it was oh it was. Thank you, andrew. You can use that one on an outtake, by the way. We've been recording this whole time, so you're already in, so everything look good here. As far as the questions go, yeah, I'm knowing anyone.
Speaker 1:Is this the first time you've seen?
Speaker 3:that? No, I asked for it yesterday. Two days ago, I didn't want to walk in completely blind.
Speaker 1:I saw it five minutes ago.
Speaker 2:Steven is a professional.
Speaker 3:Marshall. He's professional, very well versed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, even asked for it, yeah.
Speaker 3:I was trying to avoid the podcast. Not because of Steven, because of you, Mark.
Speaker 2:So you see how this is going to go. Yep, all right, cool. So we're going to just jump in.
Speaker 4:Andrew, do a little intro yeah, get to know about you and your company.
Speaker 2:Well, basically, yes, have you're going to talk? I've been talking a lot, I'm going to shut up, you're going to talk a lot, and uh, and then we'll do like a section really on your, on you and whatever you want to say, and we'll kind of lead you with the and then we'll kind of go into how does technology play into the stuff you do and that sort of thing. Cool, excellent, andrew. All right, let's rock and roll. Marshall, if you were to lead these questions, that'd be awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let me grab my sheets.
Speaker 2:It should be right there right.
Speaker 3:No, it's on the table. No, I get it. It's on the table, back there.
Speaker 2:Again, preparedness. Just remember, that's what happens when your parents let you do.
Speaker 1:Sit around.
Speaker 2:Marshall's daughter just went to kindergarten, first day yesterday.
Speaker 1:It's a big one, so he came in crying and weepingeping. You got two more years before kindergarten on our first.
Speaker 2:So oh yeah you said your first. How many kids do you have?
Speaker 1:oh, we have one on the way right now, so congratulations, how far on the way uh, christmas eve, so oh wow what that means.
Speaker 2:Weeks wise, but my mom, uh was was a christmas eve baby, so yeah, that's very cool. So you have one that's going to kindergarten in two years.
Speaker 1:You said yeah, he's three, just turned three all right and do you know the?
Speaker 2:do you know the sex of the of the second one?
Speaker 1:yeah, we've got a girl coming. Wow, we'll have one of each very nice, yeah, will you stop after two?
Speaker 4:then you got your boy, you got your girl no, she's one of three, I'm one of four.
Speaker 1:So I like absolute chaos in my life saying we're gonna go three, four wow beyond that, but someone who has four man.
Speaker 2:All right, so you you good with just leading the questions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll chime in as needed the casey construction questions is there like a highlight of questions that you definitely want to ask, or you just want to run through them all uh, we'll just kind of.
Speaker 2:We'll just kind of see how it goes, just kind of flow yeah, I mean we're you know 15 minutes kind of thing, so okay so don't do that what don't slam the pen?
Speaker 4:again, there's professional look, he put the water on the floor.
Speaker 3:He snows to stay over the table y'all remember who invited who I know, I know I know, steven's.
Speaker 1:I think y'all even invited jason I don't think it was even me, because jason he's like they want to do a podcast and I was like okay, and then he's not here and I am.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, he's got to run projects, okay.
Speaker 2:That's what you pay him for. All right, Hit it.
Speaker 4:Andrew Joining us in the podcast studio. Today we have Stephen Casey of Casey Construction. Welcome, steven.
Speaker 3:Steven, thanks for coming in. It's a pleasure to have you.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2:That's a very deep voice.
Speaker 3:Is that your actual voice? This is my actual radio voice. I turn it on just for these podcasts.
Speaker 2:Wow, very impressive.
Speaker 3:Sorry to interrupt Interesting switch I have. I guess we'll jump right in and, steven, tell us a little bit about yourself and Casey Construction and how that came to be.
Speaker 1:I actually started it in January of 2015. I worked as a trim subcontractor and making specialty furniture. I did it through college and then ended up getting licensed and broke off on my own right after graduating college. So senior year of college I was running projects while attending Clemson doing mechanical engineering classes, which was a blast. My teachers hated me for it, but I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:So basically, what you're saying is you're way higher achiever than anyone else in this room.
Speaker 1:My teachers would disagree. They would say I was the student in the corner on my computer and they could never figure out why, and it was answering client emails and setting up the next day.
Speaker 3:Taking care of business, trying to make enough money to pay for that Clemson degree, right? So I would assume that your case of construction is not doing furniture or as much furniture. Now, what kind of projects do you work on?
Speaker 1:Mainly renovations. So we specialize in high-end luxury remodels. Kind of projects do you work on? Uh, mainly renovations. Uh, so we specialize in high-end luxury remodels, kind of those whole home full guts. Um, we also do new construction as well. It's kind of a newer forte for us. We started realizing that the quality of home wasn't really up to our standards when we were doing some of the renovations, and so we came out in the new construction side saying we're going to build better homes, the best homes, from the bones in. So that's kind of where we started specializing in ultra energy efficient and passive houses. We're actually the only certified contractor in the southeast that does it.
Speaker 2:That is very interesting and right before we came online, stephen said he likes chaos in his life and the size, renovations and the jobs that we've seen you take on. That is the definition of chaos.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, they're, they're, they're not small. No they're not, we don't we don't do small very well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, you never know what you're going to get when you start opening walls of older projects and older homes too. It's you never know what you're going to get when you start opening walls of older projects and older homes too. You might find a Modelo, can and you might find exposed electrical wiring or both.
Speaker 1:If you're lucky, we oftentimes find both. But it's part of the reason that I started the company was kind of an idea of basing the entire construction company on this transparency, this integrity. You don't see it across the board in this industry. It's not known to be one of the best industries and so in those remodel projects we try to bring in that transparency. We're completely cost plus and everything. So I mean down to the screws that we buy. The homeowner gets to see it. So there's no like we don't really know what it actually costs and we don't know what he made on that job. It's here's everything. We open up a wall, we see an issue. It's a $10,000 change order because we don't want to deal with it. This is what it cost us to fix this issue.
Speaker 3:So I would imagine that both of those projects remodel and new construction have very different processes and how Casey Construction would approach that. Can you elaborate on some of your processes?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's way less chaos in the new construction side of things. I enjoy it because we get to control everything from the ground up. So I know if I've got good foundation, good framing, the rest of the project's going to go a lot smoother. Really, after framing, stages of renovation and new construction doesn't change a whole lot um. Part of the scariest part of renovation is getting everything ripped open and getting to that framing stage where everything's structurally sound again. That's our biggest unknown in a project what's the craziest thing you ever found?
Speaker 1:opening up walls uh, we found multiple beams that were supported by structural drywall. I mean just hanging in a ceiling, Wow. So yeah, there's no such thing as structural drywall. We're not 100% sure.
Speaker 2:That's an oxymoron.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not 100% sure how they stayed there for so long.
Speaker 3:So how do your clients primarily go about finding casing construction?
Speaker 1:We're 100% word of mouth. We don't do hardly any advertising or marketing. Our trucks don't even have our names on it. We want people to refer us to the next customer. So that's how we've done everything for the last six years. The easiest way to find us is probably through Instagram or through social media.
Speaker 3:Very common these days.
Speaker 1:And that's where we really get to show off the pictures of our finished work and processes and then the stories, kind of walking through the day-to-day processes. But typical clients either come through architects, so an architect might say, hey, this is a massive renovation. We really recommend Stephen with Casey Construction.
Speaker 3:Passive renovation. We really recommend Stephen with Casey Construction or a client maybe that's, like you said, very eco-conscious and wants to do that style of home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Passive House, that has tended to be a different process. That would be somebody that specifically is looking for that and comes to us, and so in that case, they're finding us through the website, finding us through the blog.
Speaker 3:Is that a specific affiliation? Passive Homes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we my buddy out in Brevard just got certified, so I don't think I'm the only certified one anymore, but at one point there were four certified people in the Southeast and I employed three of them. So we hold the International Passive House Tradesperson designation.
Speaker 2:What is a kind of high level? What is a certified passive house? What is that for our listeners?
Speaker 1:So the passive house certification came about in Europe. It's a European building standard, it's probably the best way to explain it. It started in the 70s when the oil crisis, so people couldn't afford to heat their homes, and the premise of it was can we create a home that does not require an active heating source so a furnace, a fireplace, kind of anything that requires outside energy to heat the home? And it's possible. It's not very feasible to make one 100% passive. So they created these three designations there's full passive, there's the low energy and then they actually have a retrofit now for renovations. So it focuses on air tightness, your thermal barrier, your air quality, I guess would be the best way to explain it.
Speaker 1:So, because we build such a tight home, how are we going to filter the air, bring in fresh air?
Speaker 2:There's six cornerstones that they go through, but it all gets modeled out on the front side and it ends up being about 80 to 90 percent more efficient than your standard code built homes so a totally different type of technology than than what we provide, but a lot of technological advancements in various whether it's buildings, uh, styles or materials or whatever, to uh at the very least minimize the amount of energy that that's required to heat, cool whatever the home, to literally a point where there's no exterior energy.
Speaker 1:Is that kind of what my yeah, the modeling side of it is probably where the most technology comes in, because anytime we're doing a passive home or even that high energy efficient home, it's fully modeled out up front. So the bulk of your design, the bulk of those calculations are figured out in the architecture side of things. Wow, Okay. And then after that the real technology that comes into. That is the different mechanical units. So it's not your standard, here's your HVAC system. It's here's your HVAC system. That's significantly smaller. But we also have to have standalone dehumidifiers and then ERV systems for kind of that air circulation factor.
Speaker 2:Are you finding that, with all the changes and the kind of the shifts whether it's, you know, electric vehicles or that sort of thing, just everything that's going on in the world today is it becoming more and more common to get asked about this type of construction? Is it still kind of out there and people don't know about it? Or is and more common to get asked about this type of construction? Is it still kind of out there and people don't know about it, or is it? Is it more popular now?
Speaker 1:the whole southeast is kind of lagging behind from a building science perspective um so you see it a lot in the northeast, you're seeing it a lot in colorado montana, um, but for some reason the southeast just it's not even a conversation I like that word, I like that building science.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sounds official it's weird science.
Speaker 2:Look it up, kids.
Speaker 1:But no, just the whole idea of what is a home, not just what does it look like um it.
Speaker 3:For some reason, the southeast is behind, so we tie into a lot of the same factors and, and you know, a home is not just four walls and a ceiling. It's, you know, how you live in it and how you utilize it and how it makes you feel when you come and go, and so it ties into a lot of what we do but yeah, what you were asking is, we don't get a lot of requests for the energy efficiency side.
Speaker 1:The health aspect side of it is what we're getting a lot more interest in than the energy efficiency side. The health aspect side of it is what we're getting a lot more interest in than the energy efficiency side.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, I have a feeling that's going to change as we go along and you can't see Steven, but he's got quite a long run left in this industry. Let's just say it's a nice way of saying he's on the younger side, which we all wish we were. Speaking of technology. I'm just curious, like what are you putting in your homes now? What are you seeing that people are asking for? What kind of things are you know are on the forefront of what Casey Construction is?
Speaker 1:doing lot in the renovation side, because unless it's a full gut renovation, it can be hard to come in and implement a lot of these technologies. Everybody wants to be able to control their home from their phone. I mean to be able to lay in bed and hear a weird sound outside and turn on all your exterior lights. That's a big request that we get. Same thing for people who might leave a place for an extended period of time being able to turn on fans, turn on lights to kind of make it look like a home is occupied Another big one that you can't do with traditional wiring systems. And then, of course, you get into the 96-inch TVs.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't know anything about that.
Speaker 1:That's always the big one the sound, the audio video, that aspect of it is. For a lot of people, that's where a home kind of becomes a showstopper is. Come in and take a look at this setup. Um, we spend so much of our time around sports or more movies or kind of anytime you can get a family together to watch something. That tends to be a big focal point in a lot of our our projects.
Speaker 3:Do you have a um like a favorite technology or or system that you've seen in any home you've done?
Speaker 1:I don't know about a favorite.
Speaker 3:We can come back to that one.
Speaker 2:Is there? What do you, uh, what do you like to use? What technologies kind of pique your interest that you've seen or maybe that you have at home? You've got a young family, You've got one little one and one on the way, and so I don't know. There's all kinds of different things, whether it's lighting or I won't lead you, I mean anything that's of interest to you.
Speaker 1:So we I think one of the coolest ones, and I don't have it. I would love to have it, but the idea of the warm to dim lights I wish that was standard across all lights because I would love to be able to come home in the evenings and not have your LED lights at 100% and turn them down and hit a 1700, 1800 Kelvin. I think that would just be awesome.
Speaker 3:I was just getting ready to say I didn't mean to cut you off, sorry, but I remember the first time you guys ever came to our showroom and I was talking to one of your clients about lighting and you mentioned health aspects of a home earlier. I remember the look on your face and we started demoing the light fixtures and how they change color and Stephen's eyes got real big and he got very interested in asking a lot of questions.
Speaker 2:That'd be the one thing that I'd put in my home today, if I could well, marshall, I think lanny godfrey would would flip over if we didn't explain what warm dim was to our customers.
Speaker 3:I think we should have a better time and explain who lanny godfrey is to our customers we should, we should.
Speaker 2:Why don't you give a quick 10 seconds, 15 second on warm dim?
Speaker 3:so warm. Dim is a light fixture, or a bulb if you will, that has the ability to change color temperature throughout the dimming process. So at 100% intensity or brightness that fixture is typically at, you know, the 3500 Kelvin range which is most common. And then as you dim it down into the, say, 10 or 0.1 percent even, it can range down all the way down to 16, 1700 kelvin and get really warm.
Speaker 2:And what that does for your body is it changes the way you feel in that light and so just from a from a visual, it goes from kind of a cool blue sort of white task lighting to more of an amber, warm kind of relaxing fire candlelight, and and you do that just by dimming it. You don't have to, there's no special anything to it, just as you dim it. That's what happens.
Speaker 3:No extra parts and pieces, it's just all built into the fixture, which is, you know. Everyone's first question is you know, what does it cost to do this, or how much extra stuff do I have to have?
Speaker 2:and really the answer is nothing well, cool Andrew, you've been kind of quiet today.
Speaker 4:I know Marshall's been so great.
Speaker 3:You're just trying to butter me up so I get more of these podcasts.
Speaker 4:Come any time. So, Stephen, let's get into some fun questions. So one question we always like to ask our guests is who is your favorite band, artist, favorite concert? What's your jam?
Speaker 1:So I always have music on in the background. I got diagnosed with ADD in high school and hated taking the medicine, and so the doctor was, like you know you could try music. So always have music going on in the background. I don't ever have a clue what's playing always have music going on in the background I don't ever have a clue what's playing.
Speaker 1:So I know what genres of music I like, but specific bands or specific songs I don't know I'm gonna give us a genre I'm a sucker for bluegrass uh and folk music um. I favorite artists, though no favorite folk bluegrass artists I mean I could pick one, but like, if you told me like, oh, name this song, this plan, like I might be singing it, but I have no clue who it is.
Speaker 4:That's fair.
Speaker 2:That is. That is unique. We have not had that one before, where you have music on but you don't. Actually it's almost like a calming thing more than it is, because you just mentioned ADD. So it's almost more like a calming thing than it is. I don't know, I don't want to say love for music. It may still be a love for music.
Speaker 1:No, it really kind of helps me focus. If anything, my buddies always laughed at me. In college I studied to dubstep, not because I like dubstep, but just the more chaos that I had going on in my ears.
Speaker 2:You're going to definitely have to explain what dubstep is.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah have to explain my stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I have no clue what that is I guess electronic dance music, techno, yeah, k-pop stuff no like see like nightclub music, like heavy bass, like I don't know I would not a whole lot of words, just yeah, techno is probably the best, but you know the song tsunami, no, that's.
Speaker 2:that's ben's favorite song and it is very much that the whole song is just like techno heavy bass lines and then every once in a while a guy comes in and goes tsunami.
Speaker 3:That's like the only word in the whole thing. I vote that we have Andrew make that the outro music for this episode.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't know what you have to pay for it, but I'm all for it.
Speaker 3:Just charge it to the game, all for it. Charge it to the game.
Speaker 4:Well, stephen, is there anything else you'd like to say about your company or yourself?
Speaker 2:You mentioned Instagram but that was probably the best place to find you. We'll put all the contact information in the show notes for folks, but anything specific that you want to call out website, phone numbers, emails, anything like that.
Speaker 1:No, instagram is probably the easiest place to reach us. It's at KC Construction K-A-S-A-Y. It's not spelled at all, like it's pronounced, but it is KC. That's probably the number one spot. That also gives you access to contact information and websites and all of that, so that's probably where I'd push a lot of people to very cool.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you, steven, for joining us. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3:Until next time so, uh, that was not tsunami, by the way, so I was that's my I was at a conference recently talking about not knowing like what this is.
Speaker 2:I think
.png)
